When to backorder a domain that is expiring?

[and5rey]

I'm watching a domain that expires soon and I want to acquire it.

My question: When is the best time to backorder it? Before or after it expires? During the redemtion period? Or, as soon as possible, even before the domain expires?

I believe I will find a pro advice on this forum.

 

[Randall]

Well if I were in your place then I would place a back order just some days before it is expiring.

What happens is that once I put a back order on some domain that is going to expire after 6 months. I already invest the money in that back order for 6 months and it is not always the case that the domain will expire. What if the owner renews it just 10 days before its expiry date.

 

[nielsencl]

Yes, but there is more: When a domain "expires", the owner has 30 days to register it again and some registrars can charge them as much as $100 to do so.

If they don't renew it, I think it is held for another 45 days or so, and at the end of that time period it is "dropped", meaning that it can be registered by anyone.

The backorder services can only register it when it drops, and you use them because they have automated systems that try over and over again in hopes of beating anyone else to get it registered.

If you REALLY want an expired domain, I have heard it is a good idea to hire more than one backorder service so they are all trying to get the domain for you.

I don't know what happens if two people use the same backorder service for the same domain, but I would think the one that orders it first would be the one to have the chance to get it and the other person would be out of luck at that company.

 

[maximum]

Typical life-cycle:
http://www.icann.org/registrars/gtld-lifecycle.htm

Most backorder services (especially the "big boys", Enom, Snapnames, Pool, and the like) have registrar "partners". In these relationships (check the backorder company's website), a domain that is already registered with a "prefferred partner" or "partner" registrar will not actually ever be deleted (not by the normal procedures anyway - and this has caused a huge debate amongst regular drop-catching-domainers over fairness), but just passed-over to that back-order company. In this case, the backorder company that is XXX-registrar's partner will have a very high (almost guaranteed) chance of ending with the name when it drops, assuming someone actually has a backorder from that backorder company for the name at the time of the drop.

Most of these same "big boys" (major drop service players) have an auction format, whereby every user that has a bid on the name by the time the name drops will go into an auction (most vary from 3-7 days) for the name. Only those members with a bid on the name by drop-time will be eligable to bid for the name. At the end of the auction time, whoever has the highest bid amongst that service's members wins the name and it registration for a year - registrar determined by the backorder service, for those that are not registrars themselves.

As to using multiple services - never hurts, however, as I have seen a few cases were a name wasn't snapped-up by one of the "partners"; and if the registrar it is at is not a partner with a drop service, then the name is just snatchd by the fastest computer going after it at the split second it drops:grinning-wink:

Advice: READ TOS carefully! Make sure what you are getting into with any of these services, and all fees/rules that may apply.

Good luck in the cut-throat business of grabbing falling gold the original domain owners didn't realize they had in thier hand but let expire:mischievous: Alot of times you get outbid by guys with deeper pockets.....Sometimes you can get lucky, when they don't want a half-good name...Sometimes, rarely but it does happen, you get real lucky and catch a diamond everyone else seemed too blind to see:grin:

 

[nielsencl]

I have actually gotten some domains that I wanted by using DomainTools.com Free Domain Monitor service. You just add some domains to be monitored and they send you and email when the status changes. When the domain finally drops you hear about it fairly quickly and have some advantage over those that just happen to find it. I think I have registered 3 domains that way.

 

[and5rey]

Thank you guys very much for your helpful replies.

The domain expires tomorrow! The owner still hasn't renewed it. It is registered with BudgetNames.com, so Maximum do you know what would be the best backorder service to use?

I believe there will be an auction for this name when (if) it drops, as it is a really valuable one. I think I even won't be able to affort to win the auction, as my budget is low $XXX only and I think the auction will end in the range of $X,XXX. Althought that I'd like to try it at least. I have nothing to loose and maybe I will have luck.

I still haven't placed my backorder, yet. I've tried to register with SnapNames and Pool, but the only payment method is a credit card (and you must put it on file when registering). I would prefer Paypal, as I don't like sharing my credit card information online. So I think I could backorder it with Godaddy, but I heard that they are not good at acquiring domains.

 

[nielsencl]

If it were me, I would contact the owner. This may be risky but I would expect one of three things to happen:

1) The owner will realize that is is going to expire and renew it and the best you will get is a "thank you".

2) The owner was just going to let it go, and you can offer them some money, like $50 or $100 to renew it and then let you transfer it to your account.

3) The owner will realize that they have something valueable and ask more than you can afford.

I would still do this if you really think the domain is valuable and that you will be in tough competition if it does expire and is dropped.

If you cannot contact the owner because the WHOIS info is not valid, let me know and I may be able to track them down for you.

Bad email addresses is one of the leading causes for domains to expire without the owner realizing it, and you should always have at least two different ones (at different domains) for your domains.

Oh, one option for you to consider is to buy a Visa "gift card". This is like a disposible credit card that you can get and then use online.

 

[and5rey]

I don't think it would be a good idea to contact the owner, as the domain expires tomorrow, and I don't believe I will get reply from them today. The domain is registered by a company, but it is parked. So if it is parked, I assume it is owned by a domainer and he is aware of the value of the domain (which is $X,XXX and these types of domains are usually owned by domainers). It just seems like he has forgotten to renew the domain this time.

If I get a Visa Gift Card (BTW, this is a Virtual Credit Card?), will I be able to register with it on SnapNames and Pool? And can I pay via my Paypal (unverified) for the Visa Gift Card?

 

[maximum]

If I get a Visa Gift Card (BTW, this is a Virtual Credit Card?), will I be able to register with it on SnapNames and Pool?

Backed by Visa, yes, as the fact it is a "gift card" is unknown to the backorder service. All they know is that Visa approves the charge to that card number.

And can I pay via my Paypal (unverified) for the Visa Gift Card?

PayPal has a "virtual" Mastercard that is basically a "temp" number you can use to spend up to the amount of your current account balance for sites that don't directly accept PayPal itself. Check their site, as I forget area of site that gives details. Other than this, I do not directly know of a means to buy an outide gift-card using PayPal, albeit I'm sure someone somewhere does.

If using SnapNames, Pool, Enom (the big-boys), you can trust your own credit card info to them.

As to who to use, sorry, I don't know who they partner with (if anyone), so I advice using at minimum, the three biggest ones (Pool, SnapNames, an Enom) + any others you may decide worth the hassle.

GOOD LUCK! Let us know how it goes.

 

[nielsencl]

It's up to you, but if something is worth trying for, I don't let the details or what may or may not work stop me and just try as much as I can.

If the domain is parked with a "real" parking page, then you may be right, but if it's a domain registrar parking page it may not ever have been used and the company may not be aware of it. I do think a company may be less likely to sell it, but you never know.

Once the domain expires, the owner may still not know since there is no site hosted there. And they or may not notice if it's at a parking company.

I don't know if you will find a place that will sell you a Visa gift card and that takes PayPal. But I'll bet you can use a charge card to do it, and if you use one of the large banking sites you should not have to worry.

You do know that you will not have to pay for any charges that you do not make, right? This is true for most charge cards that I know about but not debit cards. Most cards have fraud protection and I don't think it's anything to worry about if you use one of those main backorder companies. Good Luck!

 

[nielsencl]

I was looking on PayPal and didn't see it at first. I just went back and found something in HREP they call a "Virtual Debit Card".

I could not find any real information about how to use it though, just the regular debit card.

 

[and5rey]

Yeah, it is a real parking page with a popup window. Looking at the layout of the parking page, I assume it is parked with Fabulous (I cannot confirm this, as the DNS are different).

Also, I wonder when do auctions for expired domains start and how long do they last?

 

[nielsencl]

Their may or may not be an auction for the domain. It depends on the registrar.

The other thing to consider is that the domain might be better to hold on to and park rather than just to sell it, but it depends on the income of course.

 

[Randall]

and5rey. I think if the owner is letting it go and if your budget is really $xxx and you are assuming it will go around $x,xxx in auctions then do one thing. Give the person a phone call. Even if it is in auction you are going to lose that domain name in front of big bidders. Moreover the person who owned this domain name would be getting emails about expiring but doesn't wants to renew it or doesn't knows that it is expiring. So if he decides that he doesn't wants to renew then he can atleast make 100 - 200 on it. And if it reminds him to renew it then also he will consider your law ball offer if you make one.

But one thing is sure that if you think that you have a budget of $xxx and the auction is going to end at $x,xxx then there are very slim chances you will get the domain name. While there are 50% chances by giving the owner a call that you will get that domain name.

Thanks.

 

[and5rey]

I still don't think it would be a good idea to phone the owner (the company), as it is a 3-letter LLL premium domain. So I think if I call them and make a low $XXX offer, they will realize they have something valuable and will renew. I also think it is owned by a domainer, as it is a premium LLL domain and is parked with Fabulous. So domainers usually are aware of premium LLL domains value. It just seems like the owner has forgotten to renew it this time.

I still haven't backordered the domain (and I'm not going to do it, as I think the auction will go up to $X,XXX). If anyone is interested in acquiring this domain as is willing to pay e.g. low $X,XXX for it and then sell for high $X,XXX, just PM me for the name. It expires today.

Their may or may not be an auction for the domain. It depends on the registrar.

I think there will be an auction, as there will be much interest in this domain. So if there is an auction, when does it start and how long will it last?

 

[nielsencl]

I thought all domains have to go through the process that Maximum provided a link to? This means that it should be at least 35 days, and more like 65- 80 days before the domain can be registered or put up for auction.

Does anyone have different information about this?

Also, I am not so eagar to take something from someone else because of their mistake - this is just who I am and I understand that others may not have any hesitation to take advantage of someone else forgetting to renew their domain.

But again, I would contact them and make an offer, say $100. If they think that is too low, then you can offer your limit of $200. If that is too low, you can ask what they want and see if you can find partners that will go in on this with you and see if you can raise the money.

The worst thing that can happen is that the current owner will realize the domain needs to be expired and renew it. In that case you can feel good about helping someone else from losing something of value...

 

[and5rey]

OK, I've decided not to backorder this name.

If anyone is interested in acquiring it, just PM me. It is still up, but expires today.